Anwoth

Where Heaven and Earth Collide

Interview with Dr. Ed Blum, General Editor for the HCSB

Posted by Will on December 19, 2007

HCSB

I had the privilege of interviewing Dr. Ed Blum, the General Editor for the Holman Christian Standard Bible. I have been using the HCSB for several years now, and it is by far my favorite translation. I think this interview will be helpful to clear up misconceptions about the HCSB as well as to help people unfamiliar with this translation learn a little about what has become a very influential translation.

The interview is divided into four parts. You can read the whole thing or jump to the parts that interest you the most. They are, (1) Distinctives, (2) History, (3) Translation, and (4) Marketing.

If, after reading the interview you would still like more information about the HCSB, visit these sites:

www.thislamp.com

heissufficient.net

http://www.geocities.com/bible_translation/hcsblinks.htm

www.broadmanholman.com/hcsb

Also, you can read the HCSB online here: hcsb.broadmanholman.com/crossmain.asp

**UPDATE: I’ve added a brief section from Dr. Blum dealing with the gender issue at the end of the ‘Translation” section.**

And now, enjoy the reading:

Distinctives of the HCSB

Will: In your mind, what makes this translation distinct from other translations? I’m particularly interested in its distinction from the ESV, which seems to be one of its biggest competitors, if I can use that term.

Ed: The ESV comes from the King James tradition. The King James was revised continuously until about 1750. In 1870 they did a major revision of the King James which never became really popular which was called the English Revised Version, and I think popularly known as the Revised Version. It actually came out in 1881. The Americans who worked on it weren’t happy with it, but they had signed an agreement not to publish for 20 years, so they came out in 1901 with the American Standard Version, their revision of the King James tradition. And that stayed in print until the mid 1930s and the National Council of Churches who owned the copyright started on the RSV. And the RSV NT was done in 1946, and the OT was finished in the early 1950s. Everybody thought the NT was fairly decent, but the OT, they had a number of Jewish scholars and they felt that it wasn’t quite what they wanted. So a group of Americans from the Lockman foundation took the old American Standard Version and made the New American Standard Version. That one began as a revision of the King James tradition. And then there was the revision done by Thomas Nelson; they did the NKJV. Then the NASB was revised again in 1995. The English Standard Version took the old RSV and revised about 7% of it. So it’s not a new translation; it’s a revision of the King James tradition. Although they worked on a lot of things, if you really compare them you’ll see that it’s still the King James tradition. They’ve taken King James word order, much of the vocabulary is still the same. The HCSB is a new translation from the original text. For example, the standard Hebrew lexicon that we used is the most recent one. The ESV is a lot closer to the NASB95 and the King James tradition. For example, how often do you use the word “shall”?

Will: Not very often.

Ed: Right. Not very often. Usually in a stylized phrase like, you might say to your wife, “Shall we eat out tonight?” But that is sort of stylized. The ESV has the English word “shall” 6,389 times. The HCSB has it zero. So for example, “Thou shalt not,” is stylized. “Thou shalt not commit adultery” is traditional. We would say in English today, “Do not commit adultery. “ So the ESV uses outmoded English expressions of language. How often do you use the word “behold”?

Will: I try not to.

Ed: Okay, “behold” is in ESV 1,102 times. HCSB has it once. ESV retains the old form “Oh” plus the vocative: “Oh, King, live forever.” “Oh, Lord.” The TNIV has taken almost all the “Oh” plus vocative out. ESV follows the King James and has “Oh” plus the vocative 1,129 times. We have it in the HCSB 10 times, and in the next edition that will come out in 2009 there will be zero. The use of “whom” is declining. When you answer the phone do you say, “Whom do you wish to speak to?” Or do you say, “Who do you want to talk to?” King James has “whom” 763 times. NKJ has it 760 times. NASB has it 755 times. ESV has it 740 times. NIV has cut it down to 394. HCSB second edition coming out has it only 142. So, it’s dropping. If you got engaged, how would you introduce your fiancé? Would you say, “She’s my betrothed”?

Will: Probably not.

Ed: ESV’s got it 15 times. We have it zero. Here’s an interesting one. You’ll find that very few translations have this correct. ESV, NIV, a lot of them use the expression “strong drink.” Most people think “strong drink” is whiskey or rum or gin or something like that, but distillation was not discovered until the 9th century ad. So our translation correctly translates it “beer.” ESV continues to use the old terms like “leper.” But then they add a footnote every time they use it, and they have the same footnote 20 times. There’s a confusion in popular thinking about Hansen’s disease. Whatever it was in the Bible period—it grew on the walls and grew on clothing and so on—was not Hansen’s disease. ESV uses old terms like “tithe.” What is a tithe in your mind?

Will: Ten percent.

Ed: Ten percent. And “tithe” is just an old English word meaning “tenth.” So why not use “a tenth”? We have several special features that help the average Bible reader. We have these bullet notes. For example, ESV has the same footnote in the book of Revelation 15 times. We would just have a bullet note that takes you to that section in the reverse.

History of the HCSB

Will: Let me ask you a little bit about the history of the HCSB. Dr. Farstad, you knew him personally?

Ed: Art Farstad, we both taught at Dallas Seminary. He only taught there about 3 or 4 years, and then he went to work for Thomas Nelson, and he was the Executive Editor for the NKJ tradition. He was an adherent of the Majority Text (MT) position.

Will: Okay, when he was doing the NT work on the HCSB, he was using the MT?

Ed: Well, it’s a little bit more complicated than that. He wanted to do a MT translation of the NT. The Southern Baptists who were paying the freight, they agreed to do a parallel translation. We would do a critical text translation, and we would have an electronic MT translation that would be given to Art at the completion of the project. Unfortunately Art only lived 5 months into the project, and so that was dropped. So, our translation is based on the Nestle text.

Will: Now, is it correct that he was working on this translation from the mid 1980s for about 14 years before you took over the project?

Ed: Art had always had an interest in textual criticism. He and Zane Hodges published their own critical text. But they made a distinction between the Textus Receptus (TR) and the MT. So they published this critical text with Thomas Nelson and there were 2 editions done of it, so he was interested in the MT tradition, not necessarily the TR which was the translation that the KJV was based on. So when he was working on the NKJV, he wanted to change the text in about 260 places that he felt the KJV text did not represent the MT. In other words, he made a distinction between TR, the Byzantine tradition and the critical text. And they did publish an interlinear, and each time there’s a variant reading, down at the bottom it will say, “Critical Text,” “TR,” or “MT,” so you’ll be able to tell which is which. But the people who were backing the NKJV did not want to do any textual critical changes. So he was not too happy with that. The TR is based on one manuscript, and that manuscript was written in the 16th century. So, as he had time, Art wanted to do a modern translation that was based on the MT. He would write it out, and his cousin would put it in a database. And he was working on that in 1995, and there was a foundation in Glide, Oregon. The guy had a bunch of money he had made in computer chips, and he had a foundation he had set up called Absolutely Free. The purpose of the foundation was to provide Bibles or portions of the Bible and evangelistic booklets for various purposes, and when Art was working with them, they distributed something like 9 million different booklets. One that was done was called “Living Water,” and it was based on this text that Art was working on. When I came back to Dallas, Texas in ’96, they already had the gospel of John in print, and Art asked me if I would want to work with him on the translation of these booklets. So we worked on Matthew, Mark and Luke, and we were starting work on Acts and Romans, and the people who were funding the thing decided that they didn’t want to fund a whole new translation. So, at that point, Broadman and Holman, who wanted to have their own translation—and that’s another reason you’ll see why that was done—Southern Baptists liked the NASB. They published Sunday school literature in it, and so on. They tried to buy the NASB three times, and they had it under contract, and the guy renigged, so, they looked at three or four other translations that were in process, and they came back to Art, because Art had been the Executive Editor of the NKJV, and they thought that he had the expertise and so on. So they made a deal, and Art was going to get a version of the MT translation, and he would have to have someone else work on the OT.

Will: Okay, that’s very helpful. I think that also answers why once Broadman and Holman took over, why they were so quick to publish the four gospels, because they were already in the works, is that correct?

Ed: For example, the gospel of John that Art had worked on, you can still find copies; it’s called “Living Water.” When we did our first thing, the first thing that we published was the gospel of John, but none of that was published while Art was alive. We started in April and at the end of August he had major surgery, and a clot broke loose, and he died. So he was only there 5 months, so I became the General Editor, and we worked on the gospel of John. We went through the text of the gospel of John 21 times. Now, actually, it would be nice if you could do that on every book. For example, Isaiah, we only got through 4 times. I think I spent 7 months on Isaiah. We used the software called Accordance. So we had a lot of advantages, so we were able to do a better product in a shorter amount of time for less money.

Will: When the project was in the works before Broadman and Holman took over did it have a name? Was it just called the Christian Standard Bible?

Ed: Actually Art had tried to use the term “Tyndale 21,” but he got an objection from Tyndale publishing house. So he changed the name from “Tyndale 21” to “Logos 21”—the Word for the 21st century is what he had in mind.

Will: Along those lines, why did Broadman and Holman decide to call the translation the Holman Christian Standard Bible? Why not just the CSB?

Ed: That’s a very good question. If you’ll notice, more recent editions on the spine say “Holman” in small letters and in big letters “CSB.” There is a small publishing company called “Christian Standard Publishing.” They had published a magazine for maybe 70 or so years. They objected to “Christian Standard” being used. It actually went to arbitration, and the arbitration went in favor of Broadman and Holman. But they felt like they would use “Homan Christian Standard Bible” to help these people with their objection. But I think legally in the future you’ll see it being used as CSB.

Will: So we may see editions in the future that are just called the Christian Standard Bible.

Ed: Right.

Translation of the HCSB

Will: One of the things I really appreciate about the HCSB is the translation philosophy. How did you come up with the term “optimal equivalence” to describe the translation philosophy you used?

Ed: The way the term actually arose was, there was a guy who was one of our OT editors, named Price, and he had published a four volume study of the Masoretic accents. His name is James D. Price. James Price had written a little booklet called “Optimal Equivalence.” So we really owe that term to him.

Will: It seems that the HCSB has changed several familiar passages to reflect a more accurate rendering of the original text, such as John 3:16.

Ed: John 3:16 is probably the most famous. Mounce sent us an emailing saying that we’re the first translation that actually got John 3:16 correct. Instead of “for God so loved,” it’s actually, “God loved the world in this way.”

Will: What kind of discussions did you have about how changes like that might affect this version’s reception with a readership that may not understand the changes.

Ed: For example, LifeWay is a large company that is a revision of the old Southern Baptist Sunday School Board. As such it has trustees that are chosen from all the states, and they meet probably two to four years each. The guy that was the chairman of the trustee board at that time was also the head of the Gideons. The Gideons will not distribute a Bible that doesn’t have “only begotten Son.” Most Gideon Bibles are either King James or New King James. Zondervan did allow an edition of their Bible to be altered to appease the Gideon’s objections. So there’s actually a John 3:16 Gideon Bible in NIV. We had discussions on that and decided we wanted to go where the evidence lead. We actually would have liked to use the term his “unique Son.” If you say, “God gave his only Son,” or even like we have, “one and only Son,” there is a slight problem since we are called sons of God by faith in Christ Jesus. But we couldn’t find a better term. We thought about using, “God sent his unique Son,” but the problem with “unique” is there are these word associations. For example, if a guy comes in the room, and you say, “There’s so-and-so; he’s rather unique,” it may have the connotation of oddness. We just felt that unique is a better word; it means really “one of a kind,” but the way it’s used in modern English, it has that hangover of oddness to it. Another thing you’ll find is that our translation has a lot more notes than any other standard translation. Ours also has twice as many textual footnotes of any translation. We have a lot more and more accurate footnotes. Here are three books that, if you ask me what the three most difficult books in the Bible are, I’d say 1 John, Song of Solomon and the book of Revelation. The reason 1 John is difficult—easiest Greek—but most difficult because it does not have as many connectives, there’s no historical background, and it uses a lot of abstract language, like light, love, and so on. Song of Solomon, people don’t even agree about whether it’s talking about a married couple, two horny teenagers in the back of a chariot, God and Israel or God and the Church. So, people don’t even know whether there are two characters or three characters. Song of Songs is very, very tough. The book of Revelation of course has its own unique things. For example, ESV has 10 notes on 1 John. HCSB has 35. ESV has 29 on Song of Solomon. HCSB has 85. ESV has 65 notes on Revelation, but 15 are the same note on the word “bondservant.” HCSB on Revelation has 251 footnotes, plus an additional 29 bullet notes. So we have a lot more information if a person is trying to find out exactly what the book of Revelation is saying. For example, we clarify terms like “Armageddon.” Also, we’re one of the few translations besides the Jerusalem Bible—it’s a Roman Catholic translation, but they use Yahweh consistently. We have Yahweh 75 times. The King James has Jehovah in 6 or 7 places. ESV follows the traditional LORD, but Lord is not a name, it’s a title. So in the 75 places in your Bible where the word “name” occurs, like it says, “Yahweh is my name; my glory I will not give to another,” so we’re sort of breaking new ground here. Everybody’s following the traditional LORD for the name of God.

Will: So did you decide to use Yahweh only in places where God says, “This is my name,” or where there is some association with the name? For example, in Joshua 24 God is making a clear distinction between himself and the pagan Gods, yet you’ve translated it Lord instead of Yahweh.

Ed: In the second edition that will come out in 2009, we’ll have Yahweh in it around 400 times. The only reason Yahweh’s in there at all is that I had to fight tooth and nail; even all the Hebrew guys wanted to stick with the tradition. You’ll find it interesting that the NLT second edition has put the name Yahweh in a few places. Bruce Waltke’s OT theology has just come out, and interestingly enough he doesn’t particularly like “Yahweh.” He’s published three different books. In one book he published—his Proverbs commentary—he used “LORD.” He used “Yahweh” in his Genesis commentary. Now in his OT theology he uses “I AM,” which I think is a little odd. I mean, there’s no tradition for the use of “I AM.” Also, regarding the controversy over the translation of doulos, all the English translations except ours translates doulos either as “servant” or “bondservant.” But there is a big difference between a slave and a servant. A servant gets paid, has certain rights, can quit, can change owners, etc. A slave doesn’t get paid, belongs to somebody, and so on. Murray Harris of Trinity Seminary has written a book on the slave of Christ showing that there’s a loss of a significant Pauline metaphor by mistranslating doulos as “servant” or “bondservant.” ESV feels like they have to put a footnote every time, and every time that they do it, they say, “or slave.” Then they say, “Greek, ‘bondservant,’” but if you look at a standard Greek lexicon, BDAG, it’s against this. In other words, an ESV reader would think he’s getting insight into what the Greek really says, but the standard Greek lexicon says that only English translations in America are using the stupid translation of “servant” or “bondservant”; the word is “slave.” If you read a text that says, “You are not your own; you’ve been bought with a price,” you’re really a slave; you belong to him. Now obviously it’s a metaphor, you’re a son, but you’re a slave; but we’re the only translation that has that one right. For example there’s a Hebrew expression that’s carried over into NT Greek; it wasn’t really translated, “Amen, Amen.” Now I suppose you could do, “Amen, Amen.” We have a note, we translate it as, “I assure you.” ESV goes with, “Truly, truly.” How many people say “Truly, truly” or “verily, verily”? Also I think you’ll find that the Hebrew word torah is better translated as “instruction” or “teaching.” The modern Hebrew lexicons all favor this. ESV sticks with “the Law” as in Psalm 1. We have “the Lord’s instruction.” Torah is the term that the Jews use for the first 5 books of the Bible. Genesis is Torah, which is God’s instruction, but it doesn’t contain the Laws as we use the term—so like in Psalm 1, “Blessed is the man who meditates on the Lord’s instruction,” rather than on “the Law.” The Law is 613 commands, positive and negative. I don’t know anybody who meditates day and night on those 613. What does the modern reader make of these words: Molech, Asheroth, Astoreth, Samirtan, firstfruits, atonement, propitiation? See, we offer explanations and definitions for all of them; ESV does not.

Will: Speaking of words, what drove the decision to keep some very technical theological terms like propitiation, justification and sanctification?

Ed: Romans chapter 3, verse 24, “They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood.” And we have a footnote, and the footnote is fairly long. It says, “Or as a propitiatory sacrifice, or as an offering of atonement, or as a mercy seat; see Heb 9:5. The word propitiation has to do with the removal of divine wrath. Jesus’ death is the means that turns God’s wrath from the sinner; see 2 Co 5:21.” We could have done Romans 3:25 without the word propitiation. We could have said that Jesus is God’s means of turning his wrath away from the sinner by the person believing in the death of his son, but we decided that we wanted to keep traditional theological language but make it understandable.

Will: Just a couple of other word choices that come up every time this discussion takes place it seems would be why you chose “deluge” instead of “flood” in Genesis, and why “atmospheric domain” in Ephesians 2?

Ed: Yes, we got rid of that. That’ll be changed. “Atmospheric domain” is gone. That’s actually a definition in one of the lexicons and is probably a bad choice. And we got rid of “deluge” too. Here’s a number of words that were in the HCSB that we revised. For example, “hewn” or “hewed,” “estranged,” “execration,” most of these we have changed or taken out, like “scabbard,” normally people use the word “sheath” now. So we do have a number of words we have changed. For example, TNIV, and a lot of people would say the TNIV is a very modern translation, here are these words that we found a little strange in the TNIV: “astir,” “to no avail,” “nought,” “self-abasement,” “kindred,” not necessarily bad, but unusual, “suckling,” “slew,” “unsandled,” “unwary.” Here’s a couple that are interesting: “nor,” TNIV’s got it 322 times, NIV’s got it 328, we have it 42 times. “Upon,” rather than just say “on,” NIV had “upon” 351 times, TNIV cut it down to 97. We have it only 4 times. “Toil” we don’t use at all, they use it 39 times. “Thus” NIV has it 32 times, TNIV has it 29 times, we have it zero. Our goal was to be more accurate than the NASB, and to be as readable as the NIV if possible. Sometimes we can’t be as readable because they’re paraphrasing, and a paraphrase is easier. But we tried to make it easy to read. You’ll see some people say, “Well, you’re not really more accurate than the NASB are you?” And I would say, “Oh yes we are.” For example, 1 Corinthians 7:36, the question is what does it mean when it says, “If any man thinks he is acting improperly toward his virgin”? If you look at HCSB we have a footnote, and we give 4 different understandings of the word “virgin”: (1) a man’s fiancé, (2) his daughter, (3) his Levirite wife, or (4) a celibate companion. We would say we’re more accurate; we give you four choices, and we put them in the order of our preference.

Will: Why did you choose the lower corner brackets instead of italics to indicate supplied words?

Ed: That was a decision, I think, long ago when we started, that Art was pretty insistent on. He says that the average person thinks that something that’s in italics is more important. And what we’re really saying if you use them is that it’s not there. So the average reader who picks up a Bible and sees an italicized word, he doesn’t know that that’s a supplied word; he thinks it’s an important word.

Will: Well let me kind of turn the question around and ask why even use brackets or italics at all? It seems like the philosophy of optimal equivalence would make that unnecessary.

Ed: I think that’s true, but there are some places, particularly in the OT where the Hebrew is very, very terse, and you might have to add 3 or 4 words in order to get meaning out of a sentence, particularly in a book like Jeremiah. There we just sort of felt that some of these we want to let the reader know with a footnote saying, “The Hebrew is difficult” or something like that.

Will: That sounds, though, like just a natural part of the translation process.

Ed: Yes, you could do that. I suppose one of the reasons for doing it was to be able to say that we are as literal as possible.

Will: What about capitalized pronouns for terms relating to deity?

Ed: That’s a difficult one; I wasn’t in agreement on that, but that was a decision that was made early on by Art. There are several things when you work on a translation that you don’t have much choice on. For example, virtually everybody who worked on this translation hates red-letter editions. But most publishers argue that everybody wants them, the market, that is. So I personally don’t use a red-letter edition. The HCSB is out in a Minister’s Bible that does not have red-letter. Art was opposed to it; he argued that 7-8% of American males are color blind. So the red letter is harder to read for a significant number of men. Also it has bad theology that these words are more important than the other words. But it’s a tradition that goes back a long time. Even in the medieval period people did purple lettering and red lettering, and I think really the American Bible publishers around the turn of the century added that as one of their features on their boxes that they ship the stuff on: “words of Christ in red.” We have argued and argued and argued, but to no avail on that one.

Will: Would you mind clarifying a little bit the position you took on the gender issue when approaching the HCSB. I know there is info in the preface, but maybe elaborate a little bit.

Ed:     KJV and even NIV are overly “masculine” judged by modern standards.  In the Introduction to the HCSB, our policy is explained. As an example, NIV in Romans 12:6-9 has  “man”, “his”, or “him”  nine times in their text where the Greek does not have a masculine word.  On the other hand the TNIV has gone overboard to become “gender neutral” and removed (or changed to plurals) “he” , “him” or “man” from places where the Hebrew or the Greek  does have a masculine form (see Psalm 1).  Our goal was to be “gender accurate”. The  book “The TNIV and The Gender-Neutral Bible Controversy” (494 pp.) written by Poythress and Grudem and published by B & H explores and clarifies the issues involved.

Marketing of the HCSB

Will: Speaking of marketing, let me ask you just a few marketing questions. There seems to be a feeling at times that this is a Baptist translation.

Ed: Yes, there are a couple of things you probably want to clarify to people to help them. First of all Art was not a Baptist; he was Brethren. I’m not a Baptist; I’m a Presbyterian. So the General Editor in both cases was not a Baptist. The Southern Baptist contingent was maybe 1/3 of the translators. Also, you might remember that the Southern Baptists at 16 million members are by far the largest Protestant denomination. So if we worked on a numerical basis, we probably would have had more Southern Baptists. They are the largest of the seminaries as well, so there would be a lot more people to choose from.

Will: The endorsements for the HCSB seem to be somewhat lacking. When I look on the HCSB website, the list there is not a list that’s full of great theologians and scholars. There are some popular men on the list as well as some theologians, but in addition it’s a short list. But when I look at the endorsements, for example, on the ESV website, there’s a very long list of very highly respected theologians, pastors and scholars. So, two questions: first, is Broadman and Holman trying to get more and better endorsements, and secondly, why do you think that the ESV was able to garner that kind of support while the HCSB was not?

Ed: That’s an interesting question. ESV might be better marketers. Sometimes people are given something if they give an endorsement. It’s customary in the publishing industry if a person gives an endorsement that you send them a nice bound copy of that Bible. ESV started out probably 2 years before us, so they had the jump. By the way, I’m not sure if you know this, but ESV is not selling half as well as we are.

Will: Actually, I have in front of me CBA’s recent list of best-sellers, and based on dollar sales I see that HCSB is at number 5 and ESV is at number 7.

Ed: Here’s something else that the average person doesn’t realize. When you publish a Bible you pay usually 7% to the holders of the copyright. So if Broadman and Holman wanted to do an NIV apologetics study Bible they would have to go to Zondervan to get permission not only for the text, but also for the concept. If Zondervan wanted to publish it themselves, they would be permitted to do it. Broadman and Holman wanted to do a translation because they thought the Bible was too important to leave up to Zondervan or the International Bible Society to determine what text you’re going to have available. Also, they wanted to do certain products and publications, and they didn’t want to have to share whatever they’re doing with Zondervan before they publish it.

Will: What about the HCSB website? Any chance we’ll see an update to that soon?

Ed: I have very little knowledge of it. I think it’s hard to use, and if you go to Broadman and Holman you can send a recommendation in to them.

Will: There seem to be a lot of people who want information about the HCSB.

Ed: There are a lot people who have misinformation too. One of the blogs, the guy wrote that this was a translation that the SBC did to put in their Sunday school literature in place of the NIV. The fact of the matter is the SBC never endorsed or promoted this translation. And if you know about the Southern Baptists, each church is independent and can use whatever translation they want. The SBC did come out later against the NIV’s change to the unisex. When we started this project, though, the SBC had nothing to do with it. LifeWay corporation paid the bills, but that’s a different entity than the convention. It’s not a Baptist translation. I was at one of the Southern Baptist booths and we had pastors come up and some of them wanted us to put “immersion” in every place where it says baptism. I said, “Well, are you going to change the name of your church to the First Immersionist Church?” Of course they’re not going to do that. Certain things are traditional. A lot of people will say the motives were all financial. Of course none of us made any royalties. No individual got royalties. That’s different from the Philips version or The Message where they own the copyright.

Will: Let me ask you, just to wrap up here, what kind of study Bibles or study tools can we expect to see in the future that use the HCSB?

Ed: There’s an edition of the Scofield Bible with the HCSB now. Oxford of course has made a lot of money off the Scofield. You can get a Scofield in NIV, NASB and ESV, so they’re just trying to sell Bibles. In fact, the story goes that Oxford publishing would have gone down the drain if they had not published the Scofield Bible. But that’s a nice edition if you like the Scofield. The Apologetics study Bible has notes that are more related to apologetic issues. That one is out. The study Bible we’re working on will come out in 2009.

Will: Is there anything else you would like for people to know about the HCSB?

Ed: I would think that one of the things that is sort of surprising to me is that I have not seen any kind of extensive review in any of the theological journals that I look at. Evidently they don’t really review translations that often. You don’t really see reviews of translations very often at all. I don’t know that there’s a big discussion of the values of the language and so on. But it’s a little disappointing in a way that there has not been a descent review of the HCSB.

Will: You’re working on a paper for ETS, correct?

Ed: Yes, I’m planning on it. That should attract a certain amount of attention.

Will: Well, thank you, Dr. Blum for the interview.

Ed: Thank you.


50 Responses to “Interview with Dr. Ed Blum, General Editor for the HCSB”

  1. [...] that I am), run don’t walk to Will Lee’s blog, Anwoth, where he’s just posted the transcript of a lengthy interview with Dr. Ed Blum, General Editor of the HCSB: I had the privilege of [...]

  2. Great job, Will! I was really interested to read about the second edition planned in 2009 – now I have to decide whether to hold off on getting a new HCSB!

  3. Will said

    If I were you, I would definitely hold out for the ‘09 edition. I can’t wait to see it myself. Thanks for the link.

  4. Incredible interview, Will! Blum was so very transparent on so many issues. I’ve corresponded with him a couple of times and I’ve always appreciated his straightforward answers. You were also able to get a lot of questions about the HCSB’s origins that I had only been able to speculate about in the past. I’m going to post a few highlights on This Lamp because I really want people to read this interview and obviously, I want the HCSB to gain more readership.

  5. Rich S said

    Thanks for this interview, very enlightening and interesting. Also, appreciate Blum’s willingness to discuss these important questions/topics.

    Only one minor note regarding John 3:16. God’s Word (GW) had translated it correctly when published in 1995, which I think predated HCSB.

  6. Mark O'Hearn said

    Thank you for posting this interview.

    I have a copy of the HCSB Apologetics Study Bible (Brown Leather, Indexed Edition).

    I would appreciate any further information you might be able to obtain concerning their next study Bible to be released in 2009. Specificallym will it have cross-referencing?

    Best regards

  7. Gerald Bastin said

    What did you ask him concerning the gender issue? Of was that topic off limits?

  8. formerdonutjunkie said

    Thanks for a very informative and well done interview on a subject I am very interested in. There is not nearly enough good info out there on the HCSB, which has come to be one of my favorite translations. I have the Scofield HCSB by Oxford, which is Genuine Leather, and is a very nice quality Bible for the price.

    I’ll be glad to see Holman finally come out with some high quality calfskin or goatskin editions. I ordered their Large Print Legacy edition, but was disappointed in the quality and returned it.

    I was hoping someone would start a blog that would bring us all the latest news, as well as others comments, on a fantastic translation like the HCSB.

    Ron

  9. Will said

    Rick, your own writing has been a big help for me. That’s why I linked to you. Thanks!

    Rich, now that you mention it, you’re right about John 3:16. I do remember seeing that a while back. I don’t think the GWT has been very successful, though. I’m not sure that it’s made it into the market very much for one reason or another.

    Mark, I’m not sure what the new study Bible will be like, but it will be interesting to see. If I hear anything, I’ll let you know.

    Gerald, there were no “off limits” topics. I didn’t specifically ask about the gender issue. Thank you for reminding me. Perhaps I can do a follow up with Dr. Blum about that.

    Ron, I’m sorry to hear you didn’t like the quality of your large print HCSB. While my blog isn’t dedicated specifically to the HCSB, I’m enjoying writing about my experience with this great translation.

  10. [...] was a bit surprising. I was directed to this interview about the Holman Christian Standard Bible, which I had been given to understand was just another one of the recent, really good translations [...]

  11. Dave said

    I’ve heard people call the HCSB the Baptist translation, but it seems as though very few who are associated with it see it that way, which is comforting to me. Even if I was a Baptist, I don;t think I’d want one group with a control over the translation. However, I would like to know why they decided to translate the passages in Acts as “languages” instead of “tongues.” I believe the greek word means tongues (but I don’t know for sure). Other translations that translate it as languages at least footnote tongues. That seems like it could be a Baptist influence, but who knows.

  12. Will said

    Dave, I agree that it is wise to spread out the work of translation so that no one particular group allows too much personal bias into the translation. As far as the “tongues” issue is concerned, I would contend that “language” is an absolutely appropriate translation of the Greek word. Check out Acts 2:8-10. In verse 8, the question is asked, “How is it that we hear, each of us, in our own native language?” In verse 10, the same sentence by the same people concludes with, “we hear them speaking in our own languages the magnificent acts of God.” The interesting thing is that the words translated “languages” in these two verses are two different words. Clearly they refer to the same thing, but the first word unmistakably means “languages.” It would be safe, in my opinion, to translate the latter as “languages” also. Even a non-cessationist can agree that “languages” is an appropriate translation. Perhaps it might be more revealing of a bias to translate it as “tongues”…perhaps. I think this is a valuable discussion. I’d like to bring it up in a separate post some time, but maybe that’s something to think on for now.

  13. Jonas said

    Fantastic interview. The CSB is unquestionably a fantastic translation and I enjoy reading it.

    I vacillate between reading the ESV and the CSB. I’m so familiar with the KJV renderings of so many verses that it makes it difficult to find certain passages in the CSB using its concordance. It’s hard to shake my KJV roots.

    On the one hand, I sincerely appreciate the effort to make the Bible understandable and readable. On the other hand, I feel that the language of the Bible should be as elevated and elevating as we can make it. I feel that my study of the KJV in my youth was a significant part of my education. I think that I would be much poorer without that background.

    Maybe we need a KJV/HCSB interlinear Bible ;=).

  14. [...] read an interview with the head editor of the Holman Christian Standard Bible and he had this to say: Here’s an interesting one. You’ll find that very few translations have [...]

  15. JP said

    Will

    Good interview you should do more of these. I know nothing about the HCSB so I can’t comment too much….but this phrase from Dr. Blum raised my eyebrows…

    “The TR is based on one manuscript, and that manuscript was written in the 16th century.”

    Isn’t that a little bit of simplistic marketing speak?

    It is generally agreed that Erasmus used at least 4 mss. to produce his text. The TR is largely based on Beza’s work, which as well as taking in Erasmus’ work also incorporated data from mss. he had which Erasmus hadn’t.

    The TR was the work of the Elzivir brothers are largely Beza’s text…the edition of 1633 carrying the blurb giving it the TR nomenclature.

    Regardless I don’t think it would be fair to say any text was based on a mss written in the 16th century…even Erasmus famous Greek translation of the Vulgate Latin for the closing of Revelation could not be said to be written at that time strictly speaking.

    Nevertheless very informative!

    JP

  16. Will said

    JP,

    “Simplistic,” yes. “Marketing speak,” not necessarily. To call it “marketing speak” may sound like implying dishonesty to move a product. Rather, I think it would be safe to say that the “simplistic” nature of the comment is due to the forum (i.e., interview). Glad you found it informative, JP.

  17. Thanks for the excellent interview. Here are what I think are a few of the reasons the HCSB has been slow catching on:
    1. The font is unusually light for a Bible font, which makes the Bible harder to read than are others of the same size. (The font in the HCSB pocket New Testament with Psalms and Proverbs is excellent.)
    2. The first editions did not include cross-references or a concordance.
    3. Unlike the ESV, the HCSB doesn’t come with a free electronic edition. For awhile it was free via e-Sword, but that’s no longer true.

    Still, the HCSB is an excellent translation. My personal quibble is with Acts 22:16. The HCSB says, “And now, why delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins by calling on His name.” It assumes the standard evangelical position that water baptism is only a picture; that it is never intended to be the time when sins are washed away. The translation known as GOD’S WORD (sorry about the caps, but that’s how they write it) assumes the opposite, saying, “Be baptized, and have your sins washed away as you call on his name.” That translation would make sense from a Lutheran (or Churches or Christ, or Roman Catholic) point of view. I’d prefer a translation that was ambiguous here, or that at least included a footnote of the opposite view.

  18. Will, another link for HCSB resources is here: http://www.geocities.com/bible_translation/hcsblinks.htm

    This page is maintained by Wayne Leman and he has now added your interview to it.

  19. Will said

    Jonas, I know you can get a KJV/HCSB parallel Bible. Maybe that would be helpful for you.

    Jim, I assume by “free electronic edition” you mean something downloadable. That would be a good addition. You can access an online version of the HCSB, but it’s not downloadable.

    Rick, Thanks for the link to Wayne’s site. I’ve updated my list now!

  20. discokvn said

    enjoyed the interview!

    i own an hcsb and find it to be very readable and i do commend it to folk to read as their bible of choice… alas, i’m not so big on those bullets i find them annoying as i read the text…

  21. I know you can get a KJV/HCSB parallel Bible. Maybe that would be helpful for you.

    I assume you’re talking about the NT parallel Bible that 8 versions in it? Or is there a new parallel out with just the KJV and HCSB? That would be very intriguing…

  22. Will said

    Discokvn, I know what you mean about the bullets. I think the concept is great, but the large dots can get distracting at times. What would you recommend as a different way to accomplish that?

    ElShaddai, actually I believe my father-in-law has a parallel Bible with 4 versions: KJV, ESV, HCSB and TNIV.

  23. Will, I’d be very interested to learn more about that one. The only parallel bible with the HCSB that I know of is “The Evangelical Parallel New Testament” with the NIV, ESV, NKJV, NLT, HCSB, NCV, TNIV and The Message. I can’t imagine how much Oxford had to pay in licensing fees for that one…

  24. [...] For more background-type information about what is behind the HCSB translation, and what went into producing it, you’ll want to check out this summary page (with good comments), and this interview with the general editor of the HCSB. [...]

  25. royingle said

    Good post. It seems to me, just from the interview, that while the HCSB is trying to bring clarity, they also seem to be moving toward a dynamic equivalent in some ways. If the word “behold” is in the Greek text then by all measn translate it as with all the other words of the text. To avoid translating a word simply because we don’t use it is not a true essentially literal translation.

    Personally, I do like the HCSB as it is now. I know that Bibles do update from time to time since men translated them and they may contain errors in the translation from the originals but I do believe strongly in an essentially literal translation such as the RSV, ESV, NASB, or the HCSB. I believe that if God has spoken then we must translate it as close as we can to the original words and not just trying to get to the authors intent (which we are guessing could be).

  26. Will said

    Royingle, I think we’re definitely in agreement that the words of God must be accurately translated. I think the issue with “behold” is simply that the underlying Greek word can be translated into English with a contemporary word rather than an obsolete English word. At some point, I’d love to have a discussion about translation philosophy. You raise a legitimate question that people have many different views on. The issue is quite complex.

  27. Great Interview. I have been looking forward to something like this for sometime now.

    I would like to see a discussion on why they chose to translate the word languages rather than tongues, but not in Acts, rather in 1 Corinthians 14.

    “For the person who speaks in [another] language is not speaking to men but to God, since no one understands him; however, he speaks mysteries in the Spirit.” – 1 Cor. 14:2 (CSB)

    This does feel like a Baptist choice. All other translations do use the word “tongues”, rather than language.

    I am a Charsmatic Christian, but it does not bother me either way, just curious. I love reading the CSB translation.

  28. [...] Read the Full Interview at Anwoth blog [...]

  29. Will said

    Robert, I think your question is a legitimate one that many people are asking. I would guess that the answer would be something like this: We thought that “languages” was a more accurate translation.

    Maybe you can help clarify something for me, though. I’m not sure why a “languages” translation (versus “tongues”) makes it a Baptist translation. I wasn’t aware that Baptists had cornered the market on cessationism. In fact, I know there a lot of cessationist Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, etc. I also know there are Charismatic Baptists. Can you explain that perception to me?

    Thanks, Robert, for stopping by. I appreciate the input.

  30. Ty Gulick said

    Will…

    One factual correction: To my knowledge, the HCSB has only outsold the ESV once in the last several (12 to 24) months. For many of those months the HCSB did not make the top ten list while the ESV was ranked 4th, 5th, or 6th. Note that the CBAonline.org list for January 2008, has the ESV at 4th and the HCSB at 6th base on actual unit sales. I noticed that the HCSB moved up into the top ten after releasing the two study Bibles (Scofield and the Apologetics). This may have helped them for the January 2008 report. I agree, the HCSB is a good translation. I can’t wait for the 2009 update.

  31. Ty Gulick said

    Fyi, note this recent non-scientific poll:

    http://poll.pollcode.com/392G_result

    Bottom line: B&H needs to do a better job of getting the word out.

    Ty G.

  32. tc said

    Will,

    Thanks for getting that interview with Dr. Blum; I thoroughly enjoyed it.

    I too will wait for the updated CSB in 09. I hope they changed “dear friends” and render the Greek “Beloved” or “Loved Ones.”

    I still rather reading “Brethren” than “brother” for the Greek adelphoi, seems more inclusive to the ear.

    In my opinion, once properly marketed, the CSB should be the Bible of the future–I hope it does.

  33. Will said

    TC, I agree with you that the key to the success of the CSB is going to be in marketing. Strange world we live in, isn’t it?

  34. Jonas said

    I’ve split my recent studying between the ESV and the HCSB and for me the HCSB is the winner.

    I’ll bump into an occasional “odd” word in verses that I’m familiar with, which inevitably leads me to research it with my various tools in E-Sword. Every time I’ve come away impressed with the choice that they made. It’s a very skillfully done translation.

    In short, I’ve come to appreciate the accuracy of the HCSB over any familiarity that I have with other translations.

    Bravo!

  35. Will said

    Jonas, I’m glad to hear you’re finding the CSB such a help. And I echo your, “Bravo!”

  36. tc said

    For the last few weeks or so I’ve been seriously considering all the major translations and as someone as I who have done a minor and majored in NT Greek at seminary, the HCSB is my choice of translation.

    Right now I have to first edition, but I’m anxiously awaiting the 2nd ed. and that will be my all-purpose Bible.

    I hate to do it, but I’m parting ways with me NASB (so sad). It has too many inconsistencies and wonderful as it is.

    The HCSB is the clear winner, for it is incredibly readable and accurate to the biblical languages. The ESV has nothing on the HCSB.

    The HCSB is the way to go!

  37. [...] editor of the Holman Christian Standard Bible. Maybe it will answer some of your questions: Interview with Dr. Ed Blum, General Editor for the HCSB Anwoth And here are two reviews of the HCSB one more glowing than the other though both are pretty [...]

  38. JW said

    Thanks for posting this interview. I’ve been reading the HCSB for about 1 1/2 years and our congregation has actually to moved to using this translation primarily during our services in the past 6 months. It’s great that there’s an update coming out in ‘09.

    My only concern is that Dr. Blum recommended that people leave comments to the publishers on the website. Unfortunately, every time I’ve asked a question or submitted any thoughts on the B & H website, I’ve never received a response from them. This may not be the ‘best’ way to get in touch with them.

  39. Robert said

    Will,

    I just came back to read the interview again, and read through the comments, and I never did respond to your question – “Can you explain that perception to me?” regarding why it “makes it a Baptist translation.”

    I think it’s old misidentified perception in my mind. The only cessationist that I ever came across when I was young, were Baptist. I guess it just stuck with me – I to have to purge that out of my thought process.

    However, I have evolved a bit since ;-)

  40. Will said

    We’ve all evolved a bit, Robert! :)

  41. [...] I saw Holman imprintur and figured “Southern Baptist Bible”.  Seems I was wrong.  There’s an interview with Dr. Blum, a Presbyterian, about its distinctives, history, translation and marketing.  I think the [...]

  42. Michael Smith said

    I think the new study Bible is the one Dr Gene Getz is working on. You can find his ongoing weekly study on the web. Michael Smith

  43. [...] you are interested in this translation here are some links for you: Interview with Dr. Ed Blum, General Editor for the HCSB HCSB links HCSB at Better Bibles Blog Choosing a modern Bible translation, part 3 – He Is [...]

  44. Deveney Tucker said

    Hi, i made a good observation on the How Essentially Literate blog site.
    Keep in mind that all languages change. In American English this is almost every year since the late 1990’s. Because of this combined with the years it takes to reserach and publish a good, readable, new translation, we see revisions coming out the first year of publication.
    Why? Because that “new” translation is already outdated in language. Is it because the translators were not up on current Am. English? I don’t think so. I feel it is because while they were diligently working on the translation, our language went throug some more significant changes. Anyway, just some “food for thought”.
    Happy studying,
    Deveney

  45. Peter Eddy said

    When the new edition of the HCSB is released are they go re-release the Apologetics Study Bible with the new text?

  46. [...] Bible of his own. Of course, there’s not much point in getting a toddler a full, 66-book, Holman Christian Standard Bible–he can’t even read yet! So we looked for some kind of Children’s Bible. I came [...]

  47. [...] Other Major Translations [Edwin Blum] | Faith & Reason | THIS LAMP…and that’s all I need Interview with Dr. Ed Blum, General Editor for the HCSB Anwoth WORDsearchBible.com: Hebrew and Greek Interlinear and HCSB Reverse Interlinear Bundle [...]

  48. [...] the verse accurately instead of traditionally. I think they are to be applauded for that. Here is some more info about the HCSB from the general editor that I found helpful. I’m looking for the second edition coming out later [...]

  49. Brian Moyer said

    Will;

    Thank you for your excellent interview with Dr. Blum. I appreciate Dr. Blum’s candor and your insightful questions. The CSB has become my favorite translation. It surpasses the NIV in accuracy and yet it is translated in clear, natural English. Quite an accomplishment. I appreciate the ESV as a fine literal translation, but it shows marginal improvement over the NASB. When one adds the NASB’s italicized word additions and ample translation notes, the NASB trumps the ESV as a helpful translation. Because of the literal translation methods used, both tend to be quite “wooden”.

    To produce a translation that is accurate, readable and elegant is no small task. The HCSB hits the mark on all three counts, but could use a bit more polish in the elegance arena. The first edition did have a few “unique” translations and I felt that too many of the “alternate translations” in other versions found their way into the text of the HCSB (with the traditional translations relegated to footnotes as “alternate translations”). Hopefully, this will be addressed in the second edition, as will the translation of Isaiah 53:10.

    I personally appreciate the CSB’s use of half brackets to indicate the addition of words, as opposed to the italics used in the KJV, NKJV and NASB. I also appreciate the capitalization of pronouns referring to deity. This practice is becoming more prevalent in Christian literature. The bold font in the New Testament indicating a quotation of Old Testament scripture is also helpful. I am thankful that the boxed text feature will be dropped in the second edition.

    I have read select comparisons of the CSB text in the first and second editions. The second edition appears to be a judicious improvement of an already exceptional translation. I would encourage interested parties to contact Broadman and Holman and ask them to update their website. The ESV website does a much better job of promoting that translation. The CSB deserves better representation on the web. Thanks again Will, for your excellent interview. Please continue to post any updates.

  50. Jonas said

    It seems that the HCSB Study Bible will not be released until October 2010.
    http://collegeblog.midbible.ac.uk/2009/04/hcsb-2009-status/

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